In this episode, we will talk about what a limited money mindset is, how to know if you have it, and how to change your mindset if you do. Our guest, Dr. Bonnie Koo, will also explain the limited mindset common to most women physicians – and other professionals – and how to overcome it.

Watch the episode here:

Listen to the podcast here:

Knowing you have a limited money mindset is the first step to freedom. People can achieve more if they are financially and emotionally free. Dr. Koo believes it’s not about how much money you have, but how you think about money. Listen now!

Key Points From This Episode:

  • Why Dr. Koo wanted to achieve financial freedom.
  • What is Dr. Koo’s end goal?
  • The ripple effect of changing a physician’s well-being.
  • What is a common limited mindset among female physicians that must be changed?
  • What is the first step to changing physicians’ limited mindset or belief?
  • Many people, especially physicians, have the limited mindset that they can’t make more than a certain amount of money.
  • Doctors also have the limited mindset that there’s just one way to make money.
  • How history affects our mindset.
  • Dr. Koo talks about her book.
  • What is the emotional freedom that people can achieve if they change their limited mindset?
  • Dr. Koo talks about her group coaching for women physicians.

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“I think that the first step is just being aware that they have limited type of thinking. So I think even that awareness is so powerful. A lot of us talk about changing mindsets or creating new possibilities. That is important, but sometimes even just having awareness that there’s limitations that you’re putting on yourself can make it disappear. And then it becomes almost effortless to change, right?”   [00: 17:47]

“As doctors, we think we can only make money one way in terms of medicine. But there’s so much more you can do with your knowledge.”  [00:20:44]

“The circumstances of the world don’t create your emotions.” [00:10:04]

 “Money is great, but money is useless if you’re in emotional poverty.” [00:13:22]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

It’s Not Rocket Science Show website

Ann Tsung on Facebook

Ann Tsung on LinkedIn

Ann Tsung on YouTube

Ann Tsung on Instagram

Ann Tsung on Twitter

Wealthy Mom MD

Defining Wealth for Women: Peace, Purpose, and Plenty of Cash by Bonnie Koo, MD

Everything is Figureoutable by Marie Forleo

The White Coat Investor: A Doctor’s Guide To Personal Finance and Investing by James M Dahle MD

The Choice: Embrace the Possible by Dr. Edith Eva Eger

About Dr. Bonnie Koo

Bonnie Koo, MD is certified life coach, physician and founder of Wealthy Mom MD. She is a proud graduate of Barnard College and Columbia University’s College of Physicians & Surgeons. Her mission is to help women create wealth and rewrite history. She is the host of the Wealthy Mom MD Podcast and author of Defining Wealth for Women: (n.) Peace, Purpose, and Plenty of Cash! debuting January 11, 2022.


About Ann Tsung, MD


Ann Tsung, MD, MPH is a physician who is triple board-certified in emergency, critical care, and preventive/aerospace medicine. She is the podcast show host of It’s Not Rocket Science Show, and a real estate investor. Her mission is to help people create time, vitality, and deep relationships so people can achieve peak performance and fulfillment in life. Her passions include mind-body medicine, functional nutrition, longevity, productivity, and human optimization. She firmly believes that everything we need is within us now.



Please note the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed herein belong solely to the speaker, and not necessarily those of the speaker’s employer, organization, government institution, or medical program. This show is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is formed. The use of information on this show or materials linked from here is at the user’s own risk. The content of this show is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard, or delay in obtaining, medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their health care professionals for any such conditions. Please assume that any links leading you to products or services are affiliate links that I will receive compensation from. I only mention products or services that I have used and believe would add value for you. Please note that I have not been given any free products, services, or anything else by these companies in exchange for mentioning them on the site.

I am also a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program through which I may earn compensation for advertising or linking to products on Amazon.

Full Transcript




ANNOUNCER: If you’re struggling with your vitality, energy, mood, focus, or sleep, this podcast is for you. Your host, Dr. Ann Tsung, ER doctor, and aerospace flight surgeon, will help you reach for the stars and remove the barriers or blockades that have been holding you back from living your best life. If you’ve been challenged by your health, relationships, or productivity, then it’s time for a breakthrough. So, here’s your host, Dr. Ann Tsung.

Ann Tsung (AT):  00:40

Hello! Welcome to It’s not Rocket Science Show, and I am your host, Dr. Ann Tsung. And today I would like to talk about wealth, not just financial wealth, but other forms of wealth as well. And I am very privileged to have Dr. Bonnie Koo, here. She is a board-certified dermatologist. And she is also an entrepreneur who started Wealthy Mom MD. It is a website. It’s a podcast. It is a coaching business, not just on what initially started out on personal finance, but there’s all different forms of wealth as well, including emotional wealth. And I’ve talked a lot about in this podcast, you want to reach peak performance and fulfillment. And really, it’s a balanced life. And there are five freedoms in life. One of them is financial freedom, but there’s also location freedom, vitality, time freedom, and emotional freedom. So that’s why I decided to bring Dr. Bonnie Koo on here. She had been working with female physicians mostly in the past. And I just thought that she will be an amazing guest to have on the show to kind of share her wisdom. So, thank you for being with us, Dr. Koo. And if you could let us know. Just tell us, why is it that you do what you do? And what sparked this whole adventure? 

Bonnie Koo (BK):  01:57

Hi, well, first of all, thanks so much for having me. Do you want the short or the long version? 

AT: 02:01

Ah, let’s hear it. I want to hear your story. 

BK:  02:05

I’ll try to be concise. So, you know, like many physicians, I didn’t know much about money. And it’s funny. So, before I went to medical school, I actually worked at Morgan Stanley for four years, and many people think that’s where I got my money information from, but that’s not the case. I actually worked in IT there. I was making a lot of money for someone my age. Like I entered my salary into an inflation calculator. So, I was pretty much making close to six figures right out of college. And then they kept increasing my salary. But I always kind of knew in my back pocket, I go to medical school, I was a biochem major in college, and I had all my letters of recommendation on file, I just delayed it by several years. So, I was 27 when I started medical school. 

Let’s fast forward to the end of my dermatology residency. And basically, I had these two co-residents, these two guys, and I’m still friends with them. They always talked about money. They would like talk about their investments. And I was like never listening, basically. So, I was zoned out when they started talking about it, basically. And I think basically my last year of residency, I was looking for jobs, and you know, getting salary stuff. And so basically, I was thinking about money. And then one day, I asked him like, hey, how do you guys know all this stuff? And then they told me to read The White Coat Investor book. And that was his first book because he has quite a few books now. It was his first book, I think. Actually, I don’t even remember what it’s called. It’s the first one. And I read it in a week. And it’s a super easy read, you know, Amazon Prime got it to me super quick. And I just remember thinking, like, wow, I didn’t know any of this stuff. And I’m one of those people that, once I get into something I kind of go all in. And what I mean by that is I think I read almost all of The White Coat Investor’s blog articles, like I just consumed it. And I’m a very fast reader. So, it didn’t take a lot of time. 

Then, I just started talking about it with my friends, right? So, once you actually get into a topic, you kind of like, tell your friends about it. And so, several months passed by, and basically what happened is a friend of mine told me about PMG, that Physician Moms Group, and I didn’t know what that was, I feel like people don’t care about it until they have kids, right? Because mom’s group, although now it’s more inclusive. And she’s like, oh, there’s a money group. And I’m going to add you to it. So, I got added to the group. And I guess I was gonna say, long story short, but it’s already kind of long. I just started answering everyone’s questions on money. And it was clear to me that I had a lot of knowledge. And the reason why I had so much time to answer questions because I was at a new job, a new practice, I didn’t have a lot of patients. So basically, that means I sat around and like scroll Facebook all day, right? Like, what else was I going to do? Or I was reading blog articles on money. I just was learning. And I started a blog only because a friend of mine suggested it, but, to me, it was just like something I enjoyed, and I like talking about it. And it became a blog and I got asked to speak that’s kind of how it started. And so, you know, it is basically, purely financial education, specifically for women because The White Coat Investor is for everyone, but he’s a man and his wife isn’t a physician. And so, I think maybe you probably just know from experience, like, we just trust information from other women, maybe more from a man, you know. And so that’s kind of how that started. And then that evolved even more because I started working with a life coach. And then I just realized, oh, this is like the missing link to money. And so that’s how I became, then I got certified. And then I sort of added that sort of dimension to my programs. That’s a long story.

AT: 05:30

When you say certified, you mean, life coaching certified? 

BK:  05:35

Yeah, life coach. Yeah, I went to The Life Coach School. As you know, the coaching industry isn’t regulated. It’s not like I got board certified in life coaching, right? There’s many schools that offer it. So, I went to The Life Coach School.

AT:  05:45

And what is it about money? Or, you know, what is the “why” behind wanting to achieve that financial freedom?

BK:  05:54

For me or for, in general? 

AT: 05:56

For you. 

BK:  05:59

Well, I think initially, like many things, I think we all think that once we get the thing, whether it’s money, the guy, the family, that life will be magical, and happily ever after, right? I think a lot of us thought that way about once you became an attending, everyone would tell us, oh, money will be fine. At least that’s what I was told. I don’t know what you were told. Like, don’t worry about your student loans, don’t worry about money you’ll make plenty of money. And I think it’s like, you know, the concept of the arrival fallacy. Like I think I thought, if I had more money, I’d be happier. I don’t know. It’s like, now I know, that’s not true. Even though like our brains will always think that once we achieve something we’ll feel better, right? It’s like, but then you’re just like always chasing the carrot. And the carrot is never there. And so that’s sort of why I started on the money thing like A. to educate myself and B. I grew up, I wasn’t poor. I would say I was middle class, maybe lower middle class. But I definitely remember growing up thinking that my life would have been better if I had more money. 

The why now is, it’s funny, like, I still have a little bit of that, “Yeah. But it really will be a little bit better, right?” At the back of my brain. But I think right now, it’s evolved to also encompass like, life will be more fun. And it’s like, I think it’s also really important. Also, as you know, I’m Korean, but like, you know, Asian, I think just the more examples of women that are achieving big things, whether it’s money, business, whatever, like, I just think it’s important to have examples of that, because it kind of gives permission to other people that, “Well, someone that looks like me can do it, maybe I can do it, too.” And so, it’s just so much more fun when you’re expanding your life. And when I say expanding, I don’t mean necessarily achieving more or having more money. That’s, I think that’s part of it. But I think one thing I really learned and over the over even just this past year, to be honest, that it’s not so much about achieving the thing, but you have to do things and become things in order to achieve it. And I think my whole life, we’ve all heard, it’s not about the destination. It’s not the journey, but I don’t think I really understood until this year, if that makes sense. 

AT:  08:02

It sounds like you know, you think of the possibility, you expand your belief, you work towards it, you achieve it, and you’re like, oh, my God, it’s a reality. And you expand that even more and more and more. So, it’s almost like coming from a limited thinking and you want to help others, like kind of inspire them that they can achieve this, they can go beyond their limits what they thought to be as a female physician, right?

BK:  08:28

Yeah. You said it’s so much more concise. But yes.

AT:  08:32

Well, I mean, I can really resonate with that. Because when, we did grow up poor, because my mom had a company in Taiwan, but that company failed. And I told the story before where when we immigrated here, she essentially worked as a waitress seven days a week, she’s a single mom. And we didn’t initially didn’t have money to buy furniture. So, we flipped a cardboard box upside down, I use that as my dining table. And I will be ashamed of like if my friends dropped me off at the apartment. ecause it looked so shabby. And then I thought in my head, oh my god, if I could just make 100,000 a year, life would just be amazing, I will have no problems. I would have achieved the ultimate goal in life. And, of course, it’s not that way. After you become a physician, and I’ve met my goal, but at the same time, you know, the $200,000 student loan and then yes, your spending does go up etcetera, etcetera. And you know, they say that after 75,000, any more money that you make probably won’t make that much of a difference. But I think I can fully resonate with that now. But I think the emotional freedom, though, that you get with having the wealth, I think is also something that I find important. I don’t know if that pertains to you as well.

BK:  09:53

Yeah, no, and I think you know, I’ve heard of that 75k thing. I don’t know the specifics. But yeah, I think when you stop worrying about money, although it doesn’t stop at a certain number, I think that depends on your money beliefs. But yeah, when your basic needs are met, or more than your basic needs, I think, hopefully it sort of like allows you to like focus on other things besides money, right?

AT:  10:13

And what do you, currently, because you have so many things going on, you have a book coming out, you have a podcast, and you have this brand essentialyl, and you help female physicians achieve wealth, and you have a course as well. Where do you envision this going? Like, essentially, what I’m asking is like, what do you want this to become? And what end goal, end result do you want to see?

BK:  10:37

That’s a good question. I actually don’t know. And I’ve been thinking about this very recently. And I don’t think it’s a problem that I don’t know what my ultimate goal is, but I do think it’s something I want to spend more time. So, like, I wrote a book. So, it’s like, why did I write a book? And I’ve been thinking about this too, right? And I think part of the reason to write a book, I mean, it’s multifaceted. One of it is it’s a way to establish my expertise, but also to make it accessible. It’s something I’ve definitely been thinking about more in the past year or two, I think it’s something that’s been on top of mind in terms of businesses, like how do you be more inclusive? And, you know, equitable, et cetera, right? Because, you know, some would argue that my coaching programs are inaccessible to most people, although my target market is people who generally make multiple six figures, right? So, the book, which will be 15 bucks, and less if you get the e-book, and our audiobook, right, and then my podcast, obviously, is free. But the book is kind of like, my core teachings, I guess if you will, in a book form, and a concise form that’s super accessible. So, I guess in terms of my goal, it’s like, I think it’s impact, right? Impact and legacy. 

And so, one of the things I think about inside my business is as a coach, many coaches start out like they’re, I think of legacy and impact in terms of like, if I die today, would my message still be out there in the world? And I can definitely say yes, right, because my podcast is still there. As long as someone keeps paying the podcast bills, right? There’s like a service, right, to host it, but I’m sure someone could figure that out. But my book will always be out there. Right? And so, I think in terms of my ultimate goal, I don’t know if I really have one, because I don’t have a big goal. It’s funny even thinking about this question, the way you’re asking it, Ann, part of me feels like I need to have some crazy big goal like to change the world, right? But the thing at the end of the day, what I’ve learned is, you change the world one person at a time, right? And when people talk about changing systems, it all happens by changing one brain at a time. And so, I kind of think I’m part of like a larger movement to empower women by helping one female physician’s brain at a time. So, that’s kind of a long answer.

AT:  12:49

That’s awesome. It’s a hard thing to do, to change behavior, to change a mindset. And if you can even change one that may affect her own well-being and affect the whole family and like future generations, because she built up so much wealth, I mean, that’s like lasting impact generations. 

BK:  13:09

Yeah, yeah. Not even just money. But I think about, when I think about physicians, my former coach, and now dear friend, Sonny Smith talks about the ripple effect of changing a physician’s well-being right, because they’re not just changing themselves, like changing them, obviously, that impacts their immediate family, friends, but also patients, right? And I think one thing we or the world might forget is generally most doctors not every doctor does patient care. But for doctors, who do we generally just interact with so many people, right? Our patients, and so like that ripple effect of the doctor, right? A changed doctor, a different doctor, like seeing patients. So that’s super inspiring to me.

AT:  13:49

And what do you think, like in say, one person? What is the end goal that you want them to achieve after going through your coaching, your course, your book, your podcast, if they could just take one thing away? Or I guess the other question is that or maybe the most common mindset that you see could use a change, or some sort of emotion around money that could use a change? I’m just curious, what is the main thing that you would like them to take away?

BK:  14:21

So, if it’s specifically to money, it’s that they can have as much as they want and not feel bad about it. But when it comes to non-money things, it’s that they really can have whatever life they want. Like truly, because I think like you start this journey or train of life as an attending and I think things get kind of, I don’t want to say mundane and repetitive, but that’s the best way to describe it. And I think a lot of times we don’t even look up and realize, wait a minute, is this what I really want? Is there something else I want? Do I think I can have it? And that’s kind of what I think coaching does. It just questions these limits we’ve placed and I don’t think most people just aren’t even aware that they’re the ones putting the limitations on it right?

AT:  15:03

Is it very common in the female physicians you work with, do they actually have limited beliefs on how much they can make or how much they should make with the time they have? 

BK:  15:13

It’s a pervasive human brain condition. And female physicians have some added challenges because of our training. I’ll give you two examples. actually. One is, you know, it’s our jobs. What kind of physician are you Ann, remind me?

AT: 15:28

Emergency medicine, critical care, aerospace.

BK:  15:30

Perfect. Yeah, so I’m, you know, dermatology, but similar in terms of, we’re always like, trying to make sure well, for you, it’s like, you want to rule out the worst possible scenario, right. And so basically, what I’m saying is, we are highly skilled and looking for what’s wrong, or like, you know, just like thinking that way, our brains already are conditioned to do that, you know, because our brain’s priority is to keep us alive. So, it’s always scanning for danger in the background. But then, like, you take a physician, whose job is to make sure they don’t miss something bad. It’s like, I just feel like we have a very sharpened awareness of that. And the second thing is most of our training, and hopefully, I do think that this is changing, it’ll take time is, we’re basically kind of taught to separate our brains from our bodies. And what I mean by that is, we’re kind of taught to, like, ignore ourselves, right? Like, I remember during my surgical rotations, I remember specifically drinking less water, so I didn’t have to pee as much. Stuff like that, right? It’s pretty effed up when I look back at it, right? But to us, it was normal to do that, or stay up late at night to study and sacrifice sleep. I mean, things like that. And so, I just think the way we’ve been conditioned because of our training, it kind of predisposes us to have certain types of thinking patterns that aren’t useful. And we’re also incredibly hard on ourselves.

AT:  16:49

You see, as I think, during my critical care fellowship years were my least healthy two years I’ve had because on average, I only slept, sometimes four, sometimes five for two years. And you know, it was just like, constant switching. So yeah, we don’t look after ourselves. And another thing I think, for female physicians we often give to our family, our children as well. And so again, we put them first instead of us first. So, would you say, we’re going to move into the how, so with this mindset that needs to change, with limited thinking, what can they do? What is the first step? What is the most effective step that they can do to change this limited belief? 

BK:  17:35

Yeah, I think the first step is always just awareness that they even have them. Right. It’s like, they don’t even realize it’s happening. You know, that movie, The Matrix, have you seen it? It’s kind of like The Matrix, people don’t even know they’re living in a matrix. Right? So, I think that the first step is just being aware that they have a limited type of thinking. So, I think just even that awareness is so powerful. You know, a lot of us talk about changing mindset or creating new possibilities like that is important, but sometimes even just having the awareness that there are limitations that you’re putting on yourself, can make it disappear. And then it becomes almost effortless to change, right? Because when you’re aware of it, and sometimes it just disappears, the awareness of it. And then you’re just like, oh, well, if that’s not true, now what, right? And then I think there’s this period of time where people tend to be contemplative. And it’s like, I want to say they’re excited, but it’s more like, they’re like, whoa, if this isn’t true, what can I really do? And some people just take more time to figure that out. But, I think that can be exciting to kind of just be in the space of, it’s almost like a playful energy, you know, Ann, and I feel like as adults, we get that pounded out of us. Right. And I have a four-year-old. And so, I think having children is wonderful, and seeing that innate playfulness that humans have when they’re young.

AT:  18:56

Would you have any specific example of like a limited mindset that you’ve come across often? And if somebody doesn’t know, that’s a limited thinking, how would they know? Or what do you suggest that they do to know that that’s a limited mindset? I’m wondering, like, if there’s some sort of journaling, or it’s some sort of exercise process.

BK:  19:19

How does the awareness even come in? Sorry, what was the first thing that you asked me?

AT:  19:26

Just an example of limited thinking. 

BK:  19:29

Yeah, well, like here’s a great example. A lot of people think they can’t make more than a certain amount of money, especially physicians. And here’s why. Which is interesting to me, because now at this point, in my entrepreneur journey, I spent enough time with non-physicians who just think differently. I’m not saying they think better or more useful thoughts, but like, they just don’t have the limitations that I see doctors have because generally speaking, what I see is doctors pigeonhole themselves in terms of the salary they can make the top ceiling based on their specialty. Well, I’m this specialty. So, I’m never going to make more than that. And they’ll say things like this. And I usually pick on pediatricians and I love pediatricians, but it’s usually a pediatrician or family medicine doctor saying this type of stuff. Well, I need a pediatrician budget for travel. I can’t afford that much, right? And so that’s generally the limitation that I see. And sometimes when I’ll gently question it, they get upset. And they’ll give me like, well, here’s the MGMA data. See, I can’t make more. So that’s a very common thing, and that riles me up only because it’s just not true, right? Because I know, pediatricians who make over a million dollars a year and they’re practicing, it’s not like this is just practicing pediatrics, not having a side gig or doing other things. And I think also limitations as doctors, we think we can only make money one way in terms of medicine. Well, it makes sense, though, right, Ann? Because we’re kind of taught in our training, like, you become a doctor, you see patients and I not that you shouldn’t see patients, not what I’m suggesting. But there’s so much more you can do with your knowledge. And we have examples of it, right? You see doctors inventing things, right? Like devices, like usually, it’s a doctor that invented that right? Or, you know, that’s just one example. And then you asked me a second question. I already forgot. 

AT:  21:13

How do you even have the awareness? 

BK:  21:15

Oh, yeah. The awareness. Yes. 

AT:  21:17

Without coach to coach you or they really have to be active to do this.

BK:  21:22

I think, you know, it really depends on the person, right? But I think it’s people like me, people like you, like you have a practice, someone might just stumble upon it, or someone, a friend of a friend might be listening to this podcast, or someone listens, they get an idea. And they’re telling their friend, like, that’s part of it. And then sometimes they’re just ready, right? Like, you’ve heard the saying, like, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And I just think that’s so true. And I think that’s why it’s also so important that there are people like us spreading the gospel, so to speak, right?

AT:  21:53

Yes, it’s other people, expanding our own beliefs, knowing that it’s possible, like seeing other physicians, doing real estate, learning real estate and learning how to put the money they make in practice, and to not have to trade time for money because they’ve invested in other smart investments. So yeah, we don’t learn like a lot of the physician friends, I know we either don’t have time to dive into financial education or think that real estate is hard, or other types of investments to learn how to assess investments is hard, et cetera, et cetera. If you break out of that limited thinking, like I don’t have time, I’m okay, I can trade time for money. And I’ll just put it in the IRA. And that’s okay, and not look at what the funds are being invested in. I mean, those are things in your control. But many times we have limited thinking that this is just easier and that I don’t have time. 

BK:  22:51

So yeah, I think also the thing with money, right, is that it’s just not something that is talked about whether you’re a doctor or not. And I also think doctors, we have this, how do I explain it? Because we do make multiple six figures and beyond I think (inaudible) I make enough money, I’m fine. There’s no urgency to deal with it, if that makes sense. You know, because the money is always coming in. I think the pandemic has definitely shaken up many doctors, though to like, especially those who had a loss of income, right? Because of obviously COVID. So, I think many positions have been like, oh, maybe our job isn’t as stable or, oh, maybe I should pay attention to money now. So, I think that’s good that there’s more awareness of money. And plus, because of people like the White Coat Investor who kind of was the first Trailblazer like, there’s just more resources out there now, you know.

AT:  23:37

And speaking of resources, would you recommend a resource or a book or app that you have found useful throughout your learning journey for a beginner? And of course, that will also talk about what you offer as well, in the book that’s coming out?

BK:  23:53

Yeah, I mean, there’s so many resources, right? But like, I don’t like to overwhelm people, right? So, I would say if there’s a book someone wanted to sort of, like, learn about expanding their mind, I would say my favorite book, and this is probably more for a woman, although a man can certainly read it. It’s Marie Forleo’s book, Everything is Figureoutable because she addresses a lot of stuff, including money and time, but all about limiting beliefs, etcetera. So, I think that is a great book. It’s an easy read those exercises, and if they want something specifically for money, my book and The White Coat Investors books I think are great.

AT: 24:29

Could you talk a little bit about your book, please? 

BK:  24:32

Yeah, the book is called Defining Wealth for Women: Peace, Purpose, and Plenty of Cash. And it is a book I’m basically debunking, every chapter has a myth in the title. And so, each chapter is debunking a common money myth like money is complicated, money is stressful, or money has morals etcetera. And I kind of present information in a few ways. One is I kind of explained the history of money socialization when it comes to women specifically, just like the history, right? Because just for a quick example, you know, it wasn’t until the late 70s, that we could not as a woman open a line of credit without a man’s signature. Like, that’s just crazy. That wasn’t even that long ago. I was born in ‘77. So, I think it was ‘74 that this law was passed, for example. And history has lasting effects, right? Because it informs people’s beliefs, like people think if it was a law that it must be true. You know what I mean? And so, there’s like that effed-up history. And then it’s just also the way our brains are wired. And so many of us don’t even know why we think the way we do, we just think this is the way I am or just no one talks about that. Right? So, it’s like marrying the cognitive science behind our brains, and how it relates to money as a woman. And there’s some practical information as well about budgeting and debt, etcetera. 

So, I think it’s a book to help expand a woman’s, I guess, her belief about money and what’s possible for her, but in the context of money, but also, as the title suggests, peace, purpose, and plenty of cash, like money is great, but money is useless if you’re in emotional poverty, right? So, it’s like having peace of mind, having a purpose. I think as human beings we are, I don’t want to say happiest (inaudible) goal, but we are most happy sort of in sync feel like we’re in flow, whatever you want to call it when we feel like our life has meaning and purpose. So, I think it’s just important to like, address all three things.

AT:  26:27

And I’m wondering, you know, throughout your journey, how has your emotional health progressed through after learning about personal finance, wealth, changing mindset, and I’m asking because, you know, I want to know, the listeners to know kind of what is kind of the end vision or dream or the emotional freedom they can achieve? You know, if they start on this path, so I’m curious what it has done for you.

BK:  26:54

Yeah, and I think the biggest lesson or if I could just say, one thing is the circumstances of the world, like your job, whether you’re married or not, whether you get sick, or someone else close to you get sick, those don’t actually create your emotions. And knowing that you have agency over your internal world, it can sound scary, it can sound like horrible news, or it can sound like great news, depending on where you’re at emotionally. And actually, what comes to mind is, there’s a Holocaust survivor, who wrote a book called The Choice, have you heard of it? And so I think of her like she was in the Holocaust as a teenager. And she talks about how she always chose to still have emotional freedom despite being physically imprisoned. And so, I think about that a lot. Like when someone truly knows that they have agency over their emotions, and ultimately, their life, that to me is true power. Someone could take away everything and I could still have the fortitude to know that I can recreate everything. The money isn’t what makes me great, or whatever. I think I’m not there yet, like 100%, Ann, but I think that’s kind of like the goal is to always be at peace, no matter what’s going on. 

AT:  28:15

Yeah, it’s the five freedoms, the water moments, the emotional freedom, you know, when you can work on your physical body or healthy. The next thing you work on is your brain and your emotions. And if you can control your thoughts, think about your thoughts and emotions and be able to change the story, change your limiting beliefs and have full control over your amygdala, essentially, the reactive amygdala. I think that is true power, like you said, and I think a lot of people would want that end goal, because we often are under stress, and we’re often reacting all the time. 

BK: Yeah, exactly.

AT: So, this path is not just yes, like financial freedom, to achieve wealth, but really, it’s about learning your mindset, learning your limiting beliefs. And it sounds like your book is like, you know, puts everything together. It’s not just about the money, but it’s about your holistic balance as well. Does that sound correct?

BK:  29:14

Yeah, it’s definitely like mostly about money, but it kind of puts in the context of the whole picture, right? Like it’s useless without the other stuff.

AT:  29:22

And where can they buy this book? Or when can they find this book out?

BK:  29:26

Yeah, so the published date is January 11, 2022. Like is that the right area? The years get all mashed up with the pandemic lately. And right now, depending on when this podcast comes out, they can actually download the introduction and chapter one on my website, and I actually read the introduction on a podcast episode.

AT:  29:47

And do you offer any sort of courses or coaching that people can look up? 

BK:  29:52

Yeah, so everything’s on my website, which is And so right now I have a basically it’s a group coaching program for women physicians. It’s called Money for Women Physicians and it’s about money. But it’s also about, you know, living your best life.

AT:  30:08

Awesome. Thank you. And I think just to summarize, it sounds like, you know, the “why” that we do this is really, like, why you do this is you want to change, impact woman one at a time for not just financial freedom, but also emotional freedom, just change your limited mindset. And that’s kind of the most common theme that you see in female physicians, we have like limited mindset in how much we can make, how much we can do, if we can even branch out of medicine. And thank you for the resources that you listed. The Everything is Figureoutouble, and also the book on The White Coat Investor. And also, The Choice is another one. Okay. And so, if there’s one action that you want the listeners to take after this, what do you think it would be?

BK:  30:58

Oh, that’s a good one. I would say, just because we’re recording right now in December, and this is something I’m thinking about is start answering the question, “What do you want? What do you really want?” And the answer might not come right away. But like, even asking a question can be powerful, right? Because then you feel like your brain starts going to work to try to answer that question. So, the action would be to ask that question and to start thinking about the answer for themselves.

AT:  31:29

And what timeframe are they looking at?

BK:  31:31

What do you mean?

AT:  31:33

What do they really want for the rest of their lives? In 10 years? 20 years? 

BK:  31:38

I just think it’s important to understand what you want, and then you could figure out the timeline later.

AT:  31:44

I guess, yes. What do you actually really want that makes you happy? Like what brings you joy? And that’s a really, really deep question. I think I will have to like journal a little bit and take a look at this. 

BK:  31:57

Same here. It’s something I’m, December’s always like, my month of reflection. And so, I’m just thinking a lot about the type of stuff.

AT:  32:03

Yeah, yeah. Because we’re often like, you know, caught up in the day-to-day tasks, and we go to work, and we’re just going with routine. But in the end, is it really contributing to what we really want? Or are we moving further away from what we really want? So, thank you, that was so much fun. Thank you. I appreciate your time, your wisdom, and also like your efforts in trying to make like making impacts not just female physicians, but I’m sure like people around the world, anybody really would benefit from the information that we did today.

BK:  32:35

Awesome. You’re welcome. Thanks so much for having me.

AT:  32:37

Thank you. And remember, everything we need is within us now please go to And over there, you will find the resources that we talked about, the book links, and also the transcript, the show notes. So, thank you guys for your time and attention today. Have an amazing day.

Announcer:  32:57

ANNOUNCER: That’s it for today’s episode. Head on over to iTunes and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on iTunes will win a chance in the grand prize drawing to win a private VIP Day for a health and life makeover with Dr. Ann Tsung, herself. Then, be sure to head on over to and pick up your free gift from Dr. Tsung. Then, join us on the next episode.


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