In this episode of “It’s Not Rocket Science,” host Dr. Ahn Tsung interviews Dr. Jillian Rigert, an Oral Medicine physician and life and leadership coach. Dr. Rigert shares her personal journey of realizing the importance of rest and recovery for productivity. She discusses her experience in surgical residency and the mental health challenges she faced when she neglected to take time for herself. Dr. Rigert emphasizes the need for individuals, especially high achievers, to prioritize rest and reset in order to find true productivity and fulfillment.

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Find out from Ann this ins and outs of Aerospace Medicine, the workload, requirements and opportunities for anyone interested in pursuing this as a career.

Key Points From This Episode:

  • The importance of rest and recovery for productivity.
  • Lessons learned from neglecting self-care and the impact on mental health.
  • Recognizing the need for alternative options and exploring new paths.
  • Overcoming the fear of disappointing others and making choices aligned with personal well-being.
  • The power of embracing authenticity and finding a sense of belonging.
  • Changing the narrative and self-talk to foster self-compassion and growth.
  • Embracing discomfort and uncertainty as opportunities for personal development.
  • Building a supportive community and seeking help in the healing process.
  • Shifting perspective on rest as a productive and essential practice.

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  • “To be productive, you actually need to have the grit to recover.”
  • “We often feel trapped and exhausted, but rest can be the most productive thing we can do.”
  • “Survival mode limits our ability to see alternative options.”
  • “Change requires embracing discomfort and facing the realities of our current situation.”
  • “The opposite of belonging is fitting in. Embrace your authentic self and attract your tribe.”
  • “Rest is an opportunity for growth, both mentally and physically.”
  • “Stillness and discomfort can lead to personal and professional growth.”


Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

YouTube Channel:

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The Way of Integrity by Martha Beck:

Do Nothing by Celeste Headlee:

It’s Not Rocket Science Show website

Ann Tsung on Facebook

Ann Tsung on LinkedIn

Ann Tsung on YouTube

Ann Tsung on Instagram

Ann Tsung on Twitter

Jillian Rigert, DMD, MD is an Oral Medicine Physician and Life and Professional Leadership dedicated to bringing the humans back into the healing. She is passionate about helping people to discover or rediscover what it means to live a life true to themselves and create a life that is in alignment with their own core values – freeing themselves from living for the expectations of others.




About Ann Tsung, MD, MPH

AnnTsungImageAnn Tsung, MD, MPH is a physician who is triple board-certified in emergency, critical care, and preventive/aerospace medicine. She is the podcast show host of It’s Not Rocket Science Show, and a real estate investor. Her mission is to help people create time, vitality, and deep relationships so people can achieve peak performance and fulfillment in life. Her passions include mind-body medicine, functional nutrition, longevity, productivity, and human optimization. She firmly believes that everything we need is within us now.



Please note the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed herein belong solely to the speaker, and not necessarily those of the speaker’s employer, organization, government institution, or medical program. This show is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is formed. The use of information on this show or materials linked from here is at the user’s own risk. The content of this show is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard, or delay in obtaining, medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their health care professionals for any such conditions. Please assume that any links leading you to products or services are affiliate links that I will receive compensation from. I only mention products or services that I have used and believe would add value for you. Please note that I have not been given any free products, services, or anything else by these companies in exchange for mentioning them on the site.

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Full Transcript


Speaker 1 0:06
If you’re struggling with your vitality, energy, mood, focus or sleep, this podcast is for you. Your host, Dr. Ahn sung ER doctor and aerospace flight surgeon will help you reach for the stars and remove the barriers or blockades that have been holding you back from living your best life. If you’ve been challenged by your health, relationships or productivity, then it’s time for a breakthrough. So here’s your host, Dr. N some.

Ann Tsung 0:42
Hello, welcome to It’s not rocket science show. And I’m your host, Dr. Ahn Tsung. And today I have the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Jillian Rigert. She’s a Oral Medicine physician. And also she is a life and leadership coach. And the reason why I wanted to break her here is because to be productive, you actually need to have the grit to recover. And she’s going to explain to you what happened when she wasn’t able to reset and recover. And how all of us who may be type A who are always on the go, who want to check things off our list, actually to be more productive, need to rest and reset. So thank you so much, Julianne, for coming onto the show. Would you please give us a brief introduction of yourself? And why did you decide to make this your mission as the coach and on your YouTube channel?

Jillian Rigert 1:33
Yeah, and thank you so much for having me. I love what you do. And I’m really grateful to be here. And you’re absolutely right. So part of the conversation that we’re going to have today is lessons I learned from not resting as I actually started my journey as an oral maxillofacial surgery resident in the Air Force. So it was all type A all very mission driven, very focused on the end goal, which as we know, can always be modified so that you never have an end in sight. And when I was in surgery, I realized that surgery was not going to be an ideal career for me, I actually develop suicidal ideation while on call. And I stuck with it for three more years. And I just couldn’t consider the opportunity to allow myself to rest and reset and deviate from the career plan that I had for myself. But eventually, it got to a point where I did transition, I was medically discharged in the military and had to make a decision to transfer specialties. So rather than give myself the opportunity to really consider what’s in my next best step, what’s the best interest for me, I was in the hospital, with medical compromised from what was going on during surgery, preparing for my interviews, and I waited to resign from surgery until I think it was a day or two before starting my next residency. The problem with this is that all the things that led me to exhaustion and some severe mental health challenges during surgery repeated themselves. And I went from that residency to a faculty position. And again, it repeated itself until I finally said enough is enough. And I had to do something different. And I learned to re shape my relationship with rest and see it as the most productive thing that I could do in order to get off that merry go round.

Speaker 2 3:24
Wow, yeah, I can’t imagine having suicidal ideation from being stuck with feeling like you’re stuck feeling you have no choice. Yet. We always have a choice. But sometimes it sounds like you know, when you’re deep in the training, you feel like there’s no choice. Is that what happened? But how did you realize you had a choice later on?

Speaker 3 3:46
Well, that’s exactly why this conversation is so important, because many of us go into survival mode. And in survival mode, your mind can’t really offer you all the options that exist. And so my options were very much I’m going to continue my surgical residency, or I’m going to take my own life. And I wrote in a journal, so I know that I could not come up with another option. And I believe a lot of people get trapped in that consideration. And I was in therapy at that time. Thankfully, I did get help because I voiced concerns about my, what was going on during call. And I was talking to the psychologist and he’s like, You know what, I don’t know the most famous oral surgeon he’s like, what other options do you think might be available? So that amount of space to consider, wait a second, there’s another option, and this person won’t judge me for choosing it. And I’m very fortunate that my program director in oral surgery was very holistically minded and said I would only be disappointed if you chose a path that wasn’t right for you. Had I been with a different person, that rate made me really feel like I had to continue surgery or I was a failure and they reinforced my own perspective. I think things would have turned out a lot differently and I fear for the people who might be in those circumstances and have an external dialogue that’s validating an internal dialogue, which is not offering them the truth, especially if experiencing deep levels of exhaustion and potentially burnout and depression.

Speaker 2 5:13
Yeah, it sounds like you know, a lot of times when we have the right mentors that can veer us one way versus the other. And when you this doesn’t have to apply to surgical residency, of course, you know, this can apply to whoever is listening into your position your job as a nurse, as a physician, as a professional, or, you know, even a mom who is just drowning, in work with her like housework, children and cleaning, it could apply to everything. When you’re drowning, you’re not getting enough sleep, you’re working so hard, you can’t eat enough or drink enough you don’t meet your basic needs, then it’s really hard for your executive function. To even think of alternatives and options. The question I have for you is, so can you tell the audience a little bit what their outcome could be? How could it change, if they’re able to rest, reset, give them permission to actually step back and recover just so that they can see a different vision, a different possibility? The what?

Speaker 3 6:15
Yeah, so I think the what when people take a step back, I mean, the opportunities that the position I have now, so I’m a research fellow in radiation oncology, what I’m doing right now didn’t exist back when I was trying to decide what I was going to do. So a lot of people get trapped in a traditional path. And they can’t see the options that might be available. And we often feel trapped, as you mentioned. And that is reinforced. Also, as you mentioned, we’re when we’re in a state of mind, that doesn’t allow us to be creative and explore alternatives, or we have the glasses on, they’re very dark. So in a rested state. And this takes intention for people on overdrive. So for most of the people that are tuning in, we’re going to be very action oriented and go, go, go, go go. So what happens is even that when we are given that space to pause, especially for me, I grew up. And when I was resting, I was called by a family member, very lazy. So I noticed that that increased my hyper vigilance around rest. So I had to retrain my brain, to learn how to be still. And in that stillness, that’s when my mind started to be more creative and hopeful. And then there’s a I am a, I’m trained to do Martha Beck’s, we find her life coach training, she talks about four phases of change. That first phase is the death and rebirth. So we kind of have to let go, the death could be of the thoughts, the things we held on to as I said, I had to change my relationship with the word lazy. And if I was resting, change it to the narrative that this is the most productive thing I can do right now. And people will will resist. But if you can lean into this comfort, you can truly create a life that’s in alignment with your core values. And it can be a life that you can’t envision right now, if you’re feeling trapped and exhausted.

Speaker 2 8:14
Yeah, I think there are a lot of points in there, I think number one is to maybe at the easiest level to give yourself thinking time, first, maybe schedule some thinking time, 30 minutes an hour. And so that you can actually pull back and change the meaning of your story, or change your story or change the meaning. You you think of an event perhaps. And then after that, then you can like view all the options. A lot of times we’re we’re in a rut, like going, you know, the day after day going through the routine, we came and breathe to pull back. And I guess ask ourselves like, why am I going through this? Like, what’s the reason I’m putting myself through a residency that’s not making me happy or a job that’s not making me happy? Or being in the hospital culture that’s not making me happy? Because why, like in 10 years and five years, it’s going to be better, isn’t going to change? Is it really?

Speaker 3 9:09
So yeah. And we think it will be right, the whole arrival fallacy. I didn’t love dental school at all. And I held on to it thinking, my life will be better when I’m an oral maxillofacial surgeon in the military. When I reflect back to the core reason I pursued that route was because I’m hypersensitive. And I was told sensitivity is a weakness. So I thought people won’t roll over me. And all these things when I have the persona of an Air Force, Oral Surgeon, right. So had I checked, and of course, we’re making the decisions at a very earliest age in our life when our brains not fully developed, when our priorities are different than they could be a year from today or a day from today. Right? So providing ourselves permission to pivot and our brains offer us a lot of things. So my brain And at that time thought, I can’t quit, because I would be so ashamed and guilty for failing for not accomplishing this goal that many mentors had told me, I could do it. But maybe I shouldn’t, because they could see me better than I could see myself. But to me, it had been something that I held on to as I will be worthy, when. And so there’s so much we can deconstruct on all the thoughts I had. But I say that because when people who have that self critical mind are given the opportunity to pause, say we offer, start meditating. Well, if you haven’t yet learned self compassion, and you meditate on your own self criticisms, that’s not going to be helpful. So I think it’s very important to have someone if you know, if you have all these thoughts to voice them, whether it’s a friend, whether it’s a coach, whether it’s a therapist, just so you can really get out there and explore and understand where your thoughts might have originated, and how you can reshape them in order to be in alignment with a life path that will better serve you.

Speaker 2 11:02
Yeah, I think you touched on something that resonates with me deeply. I think we talked about this before, when I went through 40 years of Zen, while actually even before that, I was collecting fellowships and residency, you know, residency and two fellowships later, because, you know, growing up with my mother, it was, you know, I couldn’t fail. And academics was a high priority in Asia. And so in a way, gaining more certificates of credentials was a way of gaining love from my mother to be worthy. And I realized that after 40 years of Zen, that all I had to do was to be myself, and then I would be worthy of all love. So I want you know, I think it’s so important for everybody who’s listening, what you’re striving for, is, uh, you know, to gain more self worth, is to gain more love, because you don’t need to do that. When you when you think about like a baby who’s just born, or when you think about beautiful flower or a tree outside, you know, the baby doesn’t have to do anything, the flower doesn’t have to do anything to deserve our admiration or unconditional love. Right? So I think, for some reason, like with life, through life, you know, experiences of life, and somehow we start losing our self worth. I’m curious, like, is there you talked about changing the story changing the meaning? Like, is there a tactic? Or is there a first step for somebody who is in that cycle of wanting to achieve in order to gain self worth for approval, and outside of outside our approval to and wanting to look good?

Speaker 3 12:41
Yes, I think the first step is to stop is the awareness. And so my self worth, and I want to caution people like this is a really great time to prepare for the suck, if I am allowed to say that because it does, really, it’s painful to face the realities of what you thought you needed to do, as you said, I sacrifice so much. So in surgery, my ex boyfriend, who I still madly in love with called me to check in on me because I was very depressed. And I had realized this isn’t the career path for me. So I was depressed in the fact that I sacrifice everything to then realize this isn’t the career path for me. And who am I without this? So he called to check up on me, but I was too tired. And I didn’t answer for the first time ever. He passed away that weekend. And what I realized it was I could finally see clearly how my values were so out of alignment from my behaviors. And there’s a nurse that spent a lot of time with people who are dying, her name’s Bronnie, ware. And she wrote a book called, it talked about the five top regrets of people who are dying. And one of the top regrets is living for the expectations of others, and not a life. That’s true to you. So when we stop, for me, at least, I felt so empty. Because I had people pleased for so long. I’m like, I no longer know who I am. And so that’s where Martha Beck’s that four phase change cycle comes into play, because there’s the death of who I thought I was, or everything I sacrifice or the people in our lives, but then there’s a rebirth. And so that time if you expect it, to have a lot of pain, and to have some grief, then you can appropriately prepare to get the support system that you need in place in order to process through. So many people, including myself, try to skip that step because it’s painful, but then we don’t get out of that cycle. So if we can get to the point where we can sit with our thoughts and feelings, then that will give us a better outcome longer term. So we have to kind of trust that process.

Speaker 2 14:54
Is it possible to give a more concrete example let’s say a case okay. Um, I’d like somebody who, who’s in residency right now, but is thinking about quitting medicine, just like you. So the first step and is burned out, not spending time with family, he or she may have a family to a daughter, but no time to spend with a daughter. Just going home passing out repeating again, what is the first step? Is it to identify like top five values? Think about the current action that she’s currently taking, if it’s aligning with it, and how do you embrace the suck? Like, are you talking about just sitting with it and labeling it? Or I’m just trying to see like how we could concretely get to that point?

Speaker 3 15:42
Yeah, I think for a person that’s in that deep darkness, they would have a really hard time thinking a lot about things. So giving themselves permission, while they’re just taking a medical leave to separate themselves from the situation. And everybody, no matter, you know, it would be great to know exactly what’s going on for that person. But I think that one thing, you know, I took a few medical leaves, I took two I think during residency and the first time I took a medical leave, I was so restless that I wasn’t being productive. So it’s really being intentional about what you’re going to commit to say I need to rest and reset in order to what, in my first medical leave, I had planned a therapy, like every every week or every other every other week, but it fell through like the plan fell through because then the psychologist was unavailable. And that’s what made me come back prematurely, because like my plan fell through. But then I didn’t ever give myself permission to rest. So I think whatever that looks like, like how can you give yourself that space to get out of the environment to be able to think more clearly and envision your reality? Because when you’re in it, I think it’s really hard to consider what life could be like out of it. And there’s that pressure to stay in it for whatever reasons got you there. And then when people are exploring why they’re doing something, that’s when they can start to do there’s a five why’s or you know, something to really get to the core of why did I choose this path. And there’s so many resources about checking in one book that they might consider is the way of integrity by Martha Beck, and just start to open up their mind that there might be alternative options to explore, or if they choose to stay, recommit to their why, and then create the boundaries within their current environment and into the future.

Speaker 2 17:44
And how do you get over the guilt of letting your team down when you take a leave? Like, because it happens so often, like the team needs me, I can take a leave, like you know, and especially in residency or in fellowship, one of my grandmother passed away in Taiwan, I was so entrenched in that space that I couldn’t fathom to ask for leave to I could go back to Taiwan to attend her funeral because I was thinking, well, who’s going to be the fellow, which is crazy nowadays. To me.

Speaker 3 18:15
It is crazy, because we know, especially if someone you know, there’s a lot of commitment to our patients. And to residency was hard. So my co resident passed away. I was already contemplating leaving. And when he passed away, I really had to fight the urge to stay because they already lost a resident. And so the difference for me was that my program director helps to facilitate my departure. And I fear that not everyone will have that support, but to know that your professional environment is going to go on. Unfortunately, if you’re putting your whole worth into it, or fortunately, without you, you know, they will modify and we often hear it even this is an important lesson as it goes into your professional life because there’s so many people thinking about leaving their careers or their roles after training, and they’re afraid to abandoned their patients or their institution. But we hear often, you know, your job can be gone tomorrow, and I had committed my life to the Air Force, and I was medically discharged. And that really stuck because I would have done everything to stay in the Air Force. And I just had to appreciate that they will go on without me. But the people in my life I can’t get them back and what would you regret more?

Speaker 2 19:40
Yeah, I think number one thing that nobody’s gonna watch out or look out for your own health, your own values, your purpose other than you and the connections that you have with your family, the people that you love, nobody honestly is going to care more about it than you. So if Since I, you know, for with my grandma, you know, she passed away. I didn’t prioritize that. So of course nobody else would. And but if I had somehow listened to you back in the day, I probably would have been like, there’s no way I’m missing her funeral. I’m gonna go back like, there’s no way you guys are just gonna have to make do without the fellow the attendings just gonna have to take over, it’ll be fine.

Speaker 3 20:26
And it’s know that, yeah, we know that from our past history of not doing it. And we hope that sharing will help people to choose for themselves before they regret that option that later leads to an educational experience, right? Yeah,

Speaker 2 20:40
yeah, I agree. Because, you know, if you guys have children, I have an 11 month old right now. They’re me, he’s growing up so fast, you are missing milestones, perhaps if you want to spend time with them, watch him take the first steps like that time will never come back. And if you’re doing something also, that is, maybe you’re in the hospital culture that is, you know, more toxic culture. And it’s not beneficial for your health, or, or your mental health, perhaps there is a way there is a choice for you to say no, there is a choice for you to actually look for other positions and other like, for example, we’ll say perhaps you can do some investing and get some passive income so you can decrease your shit, there’s a way you can find a place where you can say no to night shifts, so that you can get your mental health and your physical health back. So I just want the audience all to know that there is a choice. And I want to go back to the embracing the suck portion, when it’s going to be painful. How exactly do you deal with that,

Speaker 3 21:45
that kind of reminds me of the military embrace the suck, which is why I thought I was good for the military, I was pretty, you know, pretty used to embracing the sock when it came to sports. I, I find that hitting my rock bottom multiple times. And in deciding that that rock bottom was going to be more painful than embracing the suck in risk and change. And again, we we share this and hope that other people don’t have to hit a rock bottom, because it can be life threatening as mine was from not only the suicidal thoughts, but I was medically compromised from anorexia. And so I had to sit with that reality and and be like, I have to make a change. So to my change was okay, well, the role and some people might relate if it’s Sun Enos or it could be substances or, you know, if they’re trying to get rid of something that’s helping them numb, the fear is that it’s going to be painful to feel, but it’s worth it. And so it’s going to look different as to what exactly that person needs based off of what behaviors are doing to kind of either distract themselves, we talked about, you know, on a call to other I use a lot of social media to distract my mind and being hyper busy to just be overly distracted. But when I realized that, I tuned into the feelings, and I can have the thoughts in my head to understand where things originated. So when I hear the voice of you’re not worthy, I know where that originated. So then I could work on it, and overcome it and help give myself the compassion that maybe I was craving from somebody else that influenced me at an early age, when I hear that you are lazy. Now I can challenge that and say, you know, what, if I’m having a restful day, so be it. And you know, laziness, in our culture today has had a lot of very negative thoughts around it. But as people who are overachievers, we know that laziness, oh, it can be a lot of sign of different things, right? It’s like, well, maybe I’m depressed, or maybe I just need a rest day. But in my head, I had a lot of criticism around that, because of my childhood experience of being told I was lazy and that equated to worthlessness. So now I can say thank you for, for that lesson learned that that was actually not true. And so I’m all about kind of getting to the core. And again, when we think back to the course, that often entails therapy, and a lot of the things for me have a very somatic reaction. And so there’s different healing modalities. And a lot of people have different preferences. So it all depends on what’s coming up for that person. And I think we often saw when I was younger, I wanted to do everything alone. But what I realized is that in isolation, I just held on to guilt, shame, and a lot of hypercritical self thoughts. So I write for a therapeutic outlet. And I shared my story on Kevin MD. And what I realized, is that what I thought would happen, and I’d just be guilt and shame, and people would think that I’m an ultimate failure, it did not happen. And it brought the community around me that understands me, and and for the first time I felt that sense of belonging. And I say that because looking back, I was always trying to be someone different. And I’m a big Brene Brown fan. And she says the opposite of belonging is fitting in. And so if you start Have To Be yourself and you lean into that and you express yourself and you’re open, then that can bring you to the spaces where you truly belong. And I think that having that community has allowed me to continue the healing process because they’re there. And it helps to balance the suck. So I highly recommend people will do not do that along,

Speaker 2 25:20
I There are so many things I want to make sure we summarize, because there’s so so many amazing important points in there, when number one is changing the story or changing your negative self talk. Number two, is, when you can do that, then you can embrace your authentic self, or you can say imperfections, but they’re not really imperfections you embrace, that’s part of who you are, they’re not imperfections. But when you are embracing your authentic self, and third, you’ll attract your tribe, and then you’ll attract your community. So is that does that summarize basically what you just said?

Speaker 3 26:01
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s interesting, because it’s like getting to know yourself for the first time. So I mean, being so lost was very destabilizing, but it’s like, it’s kind of exciting that you can develop your relationship for yourself with yourself. And what I realized is that, once I put on the lens of self compassion, I could better see when I was being mistreated. And it’s it’s stepwise fashion, or just peeling back the layers. And it’s, you know, kind of exciting. And I came from a very fixed mindset, where I thought everything had to be perfect the first time, right, like, know it before you learned that kind of thing. And to lean into failures as a growth opportunity, and to be more uncomfortable in uncertainty, which a lot of people are really uncomfortable, right? We don’t love uncertainty. But if you can go each day and do the next best thing for yourself, that will get you a lot further than putting on the blinders, like horses have to try to commit to something and missing the red flags that you might have to pivot. And then you might pivot and have to go back a lot further than have you been more aware throughout the process.

Speaker 2 27:08
Yeah, taking steps and learning through the process will actually get you closer to your goal, then, of course, if you don’t take any steps, you’re just gonna stay stay put. And I’m going back a little bit about those kinds of stages of changing the story, I want to maybe give an example. So a lot of times, okay, so some people feel like their authentic self is that they actually want to start a podcast and want to put their voice out, but they’re really scared about actually expressing their passion. They don’t know what their employers gonna think they don’t know what their colleagues are going to think, though, you know, just think that this is not this is just one specific example. Just think that if you’re being your authentic self, and if one person hears you, if one person, because of what you said, could change the trajectory or figure out their life by one mindset shift, then that would have been already worth it, right. And then when you have the authenticity, when you embrace authenticity, to share your authentic self, you’ll find like the tribe like what I have a tribe of physician entrepreneurs in real estate, who’s also into optimization, productivity, and fulfillment is anytime you find they’re like all around me now. So well, actually, the podcast was actually my own story. I had to embrace the authenticity, I was really scared about what people would think. And so after changing the story, the meaning of the story, it’s exactly like you said, it’s just follow the exact template. And now I have a tribe. And now I don’t really care what people think of me at all whatsoever. And I am not ashamed to say no, to spend more time with my family. So everybody who is listening to this whatever what Julian is saying, really, really works. And you really got a, you know, let’s, what is one call to action? Would you say there’s so many call to actions? I’m just curious, like the first step, what would it be right now?

Speaker 3 29:07
I think I think this podcast is people need to change their perspective on rest. Think about rest often is the most productive thing that you can do. And allow yourself to be uncomfortable in stillness. Because the more you practice that stillness, and you sit with that discomfort, the more you’ll grow, and it can become more part of your routine. So

Speaker 2 29:29
it sounds like right after this, you look in your calendar, and you actually schedule some thinking time, or what other forms of rest or self care or recovery do you do. I’m just curious.

Speaker 3 29:42
Yeah, well, I run and that’s a form of Ross because I disconnect from everything. At that point. I realized I have a really hard time stopping myself from checking things. So if it’s email or if it’s social media or start working, but when I’m running, then that is my free time. I’m in in reading now that was hard for me to sit and read a book for leisure. And so it’s doing things like that, that you could enjoy and times with my dog, which is probably the most restful because it’s not a whole lot of energy that’s being expended like men, and Italy thinking about things and not utilizing a whole bunch of energy, physically, but just being so if they have kids, if they have a pet, if they’re, you know, have a hobby, whether it’s art, or, or, you know, with plants, you’ve got a plant in your background, if it’s something that you really enjoy, and it brings you into that state of like the parasympathetic nervous system and calms you. And then if you haven’t yet worked on your thoughts, you might start to notice them come up, write them down, and then see who can help you to work on those thoughts and what comes up.

Speaker 2 30:50
Yeah, and the, the rest actually, you know, if if you don’t work on your wise, you know, it doesn’t have to be that but it can just be part of the productivity technique to like you said, it’s actually part of a flow cycle, when you finish like a 60. And then not even a flow cycle where you’re extra and flow extra productive, then you need to go out, look at something far away, look at nature, do something completely, you know, not related to work, go to the gym, go play with your children, your dog, and then you can come back, once you’re flooded with those neurotransmitters, the good feeling neurotransmitters, then you can actually be do another flow cycle and be productive again. So this is not just, it’s important to sit in with your thoughts and figure out your why and your purpose, and also for optimizing your productivity even further. Now, I know we talked about so much, is there something else that we you haven’t talked about that you really want the audience to know? Or maybe like, three takeaways, perhaps because we talked about like,

Speaker 3 31:53
yeah, so takeaway, number one, rest. Takeaway number two, really sit with your thoughts. And if you’re someone that needs to work on them, get into some type of therapy, coaching, whatever feels appropriate for what thoughts arise, so that you can really start to conquer the things that are holding you back. The other thing is, identifying if you’re being productive in a way that aligns with your values, or if you’re being busy. So many of us buffer with busyness and our culture has equated busyness with a status symbol. And I want to challenge them to say, you know, what would it feel like to be less busy? And if you are starting to notice the discomfort lean into that? Because then you can start to say, Well, why do I feel that I have to be busy? There’s a book called do nothing by Celeste Headley. I just finished it a little while ago. And I would recommend just challenging the thoughts and beliefs that you may have been holding on to real hard. And of course, let us know what comes up for you and what other tools that you’d like to start working on. Because I’m sure this discussion could continue for a really long time. And we’d love to help.

Speaker 2 33:00
Yeah, it’s funny because I’m gonna read that book do nothing. I have to schedule like my recovery. Like I do sensory deprivation float where I’m just still in the water, no gravity, no sound, no taste, no smell. And then that can get in deep deeper or slower brainwave to be creative or meditate. But it’s scheduled. Otherwise, I’m not going to do it. I’ve skipped him multiple times before because it wasn’t the schedule. So it’s the massage and chiropractor. And it’s funny when my my fiancee at the time, my current husband, you know, I would tell him like, yeah, no weekend, I just want to do nothing. And then when I get to the Saturday, I’m like, What do you want to do today? You want to go to Ikea here. And here. You want to go this? Ron do that? I just want to like schedule things. It’s taken a lot of practice. So I can really resonate with that.

Speaker 3 33:52
Yeah. And it’s all about how is it serving us, right? Like, how does it serving us, and it’s not all going to come. It’s not like an epiphany necessarily all at once, but layer by layer. And I really love if a person is interested in starting something, as you said, being authentic, is going to be sustainable, because people will know if you’re not sharing what you are passionate about. And of course, that might be modified as you start if you’re doing a podcast or YouTube channel. But I absolutely agree that if you’re thinking about what’s the purpose of me sharing this, and what is my audience, so it’s not about so when we think about how are people going to respond that’s on us, right? We’re thinking about ourselves, but we are providing something for the audience. So it’s like what am I giving to the audience? Because when we’re posting on social media, everyone you know, gets caught up in the in the responses or things but people are seeing this passively. So it’s not what can I gain from putting this content out? But what am I giving to the audience and why would they want to tune in?

Speaker 2 34:56
Yeah, it’s about them, not about you. It’s about them not about you. Yeah. And if people want to find you, you know, look into more about your coaching, maybe check out your YouTube channel, how would they be able to find you to kind of hear what you your authentic self is like?

Speaker 3 35:15
Yeah, well my channel and it might change names because it’s an ever evolving mission, but it’s called Life studio. It was previously called permission to pivot, because people weren’t giving themselves permission earlier, but it is life through us. So that’s YouTube with my name. And then if they Google my name, LinkedIn comes up and my coaching website comes up as well. They can always reach out through LinkedIn, I’m on that quite a bit. So

Speaker 2 35:41
okay, life true to you on YouTube. A life your ego? Yep. Okay, fantastic. And the two books that you have recommended, do nothing. And then the second one was live with integrity live

Speaker 3 35:53
in the way of integrity by Martha Beck. Okay,

Speaker 2 35:56
we will definitely enlist that in the show notes as well. So again, thank you, Julian, for being with us. The for the audience. This is, I think, could be a very, very important transition in your life if you’re stuck in that position. And I really, really want you to take one micro step after those two, just schedule maybe just 30 minutes and list out your five why’s, why am I doing what I’m doing now? And it’s what I’m doing, pushing me away from my values, or pull me towards my values? Is that what I stand for? I think it’s super, super important. And then reach out to others. Be authentic, reach out to your own tribe. So again, thank you, Jillian, really appreciate your time, really appreciate the audience’s time as well. And I hope the audience can reach out to you further for more coaching for more insights and get to your YouTube channel.

Speaker 3 36:50
Now thank you so much for him and for having me really appreciate being here.

Speaker 2 36:54
Absolutely. And the episode shownotes just remember it’s going to be on it’s not rocket science And on there, you will be able to receive a free gift. That’s a seven day masterclass on how to automate, eliminate, delegate your life out so that you can be super productive and spend time with your family. And of course, you can find me on social media at unsung And you can go there, same website to book a 30 minute complimentary productivity call. Thank you again so much. And remember that everything we need is within us now.

Speaker 1 37:28
That’s it for today’s episode, head on over to iTunes and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week that posts a review in iTunes will win a chance in the grand prize drawing to win a private VIP day for a health and life makeover. With Dr. N sung herself, then be sure to head on over to It’s not rocket science and pick up your free gift from Dr. Sun. Then join us on the next episode.

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